>There is an annoying trend among people that expect everything to be perfectly safe. It seems to be a symptom of an overly sheltered existence.
Yeah, how overly sheltered to not expect your headphones to not catch on fire and kill you. It's a symptom of not believing when someone pisses in our eyes and tells us it's raining. Especially when it's happening on our own dime.
>Nothing is perfectly safe, that is how lithium batteries fail.
Then lithium batteries should be banned from headphones.
>You should know so you can properly deal with problems.
Good point! And where would the customer learn about this? From HackerNews?
Last time I checked, Bose devices didn't come with a self-combustion warning.
A consumer would learn this by having interest in the world around them and how it works beyond being slapped in the face with every warning possible (I’m looking at you, literally everything in the world which is known in the state of California to cause cancer). We don’t need cushioned guard rails on literally everything.
When was the last time you actually read a product manual? Many of them actually are full of warnings about how things fail. I have no idea about Bose headphones, I definitely threw away everything but the headphones immediately.
No we should not ban everything that doesn’t have a zero percent fault rate. This weird angry response is a symptom of this sheltered fear which comes from not understanding that the world isn’t ever going to be perfect. You make really bad decisions when you’re in denial about the impossibility of safety perfection.
"Remove headphones immediately if you experience a warming sensation or loss of audio." [1]
Probably could use a few more words for good measure.
Also, they do not explode. Explode has a specific meaning. Lithium batteries experiencing thermal runaway get rather hot and then burn quite vigorously, but they do not explode.
>"Remove headphones immediately if you experience a warming sensation or loss of audio."
A "warming sensation" is not what the OP has experienced.
When Bose augments this to the following, you may have a point:
>Remove headphones immediately if they spontaneously ignite and start emanating smoke and hazardous chemicals that cause chemical burns to your skin. Failure to do so may result in death. Rinse all exposed skin with running cold water immediately, and see a medical professional ASAP in such case.
You seem to have no problem with this scenario actually happening to someone, so there should be absolutely no reason not to have it in the same manual in these exact words.
> A "warming sensation" is not what the OP has experienced.
A warming sensation is the first thing OP noticed: "I took them off of my charger, put them on my head, and noticed they were suddenly getting very warm".
Taking them off at that point does remove _some_ of the risks.
Interesting it also says it shouldn't be connected to a Airplane Seat Adapter yet I'm sure my QC 35'S came with a airplane adapter. Wonder what happened there.
"We know our product is unsafe and shouldn't be used in this way, but this is a huuuuge use case for our product, so we will make it appear as if it's designed for it, while warning the user to not use it in a manner that they bought the product for. Genius!"
>Yeah, how overly sheltered to not expect your headphones to not catch on fire and kill you
Very. In the end you're carrying a high energy density power source on your head that would love to just catch fire. Don't they teach kids anything in chemistry these days?
>Very. In the end you're carrying a high energy density power source on your head that would love to just catch fire. Don't they teach kids anything in chemistry these days?
I just love how this comment appears in the same thread as this one:
>That sort of paranoia doesn't help. In fact it may cause psychosomatic symptoms (nocebo effect).
Anyway, if it's common knowledge, there's no harm to put a big label warning about it on the instruction manual, right?
Last time I checked, passing chemistry isn't a requirement for purchasing Bose QuietComfort 35 II headphones, which spontaneously catch fire and cause chemical burns.
> I just love how this comment appears in the same thread as this one
Yes. One says “yes lipo batteries can have thermal runaway” and the other comment says “don’t twist yourself into knots by worrying over this one time bad exposure”.
They talk about two different things in two different way. Your comment makes it sound as if they are somehow contradicting each other? They don’t.
> Yeah, how overly sheltered to not expect your headphones to not catch on fire and kill you. It's a symptom of not believing when someone pisses in our eyes and tells us it's raining. Especially when it's happening on our own dime.
I agree with the feeling, but flammable batteries are one of the less risky and stupid thing humans are doing.
I mean, we are literally littering the sky with swarms of useless satellites for the rich hikers in the global north (one example among many of totally idiotic behavior) - I can live with batteries.
(btw. I don't even have a smartphone or a cellphone in general, i know i'm a bit of a radical - and i use only wired stuff, because i find it more practical, durable and ecological - point is, people accept very stupid stuff for their convenience, that's why we are slowly killing our planet and ourselves - your points are valid, but it won't deter people from using dangerous chemicals in their lives, and the throwing them away and poison nature and themsleves)
Starlink, Project Kuiper, etc. where they plan to send more than 12,000 satellites into space, for having wi-fi on earth (for those who can afford it, it's very expensive, 500 usd setup + 100 usd per month - not affordable for 90% of the world)
but they are ruining the sky for 100% of us, for the benefit of some rich techbro that want to check emails in some remote place.
I see. I don't live in a remote place at all (central USA), but Starlink is far better internet than anything else we can get. Currently our connection speed is 0.6 Mbps. It's supposed to be 10, but they have problems pretty often...
Some of the safety issues could be alleviated through different product design. For instance -- the charge system is a USB cable direct to the headphones. A fireproof cradle might be one option to handle to at least mitigate for unattended thermal runaway. In fact, a fireproof box in which to charge portable devices might not be a bad product idea.
Most "LiPo" batteries are typically the same chemistry as your "Lithium-ion" but without the puncture and pressure resistant casing. The plastic pouch is the "polymer" part. LiPo batteries are lighter and can produce more current than basically the same thing in a safer standard container.
So yeah, big difference in safety, not really a difference in the chemistry.
The above was explained to me by someone I believe knows what they're talking about. But I may have misunderstood; if I have, please let me know!
LiPo is a subclass of Lithium-Ion (which is confusing), but is a different chemistry. LiPo batteries are typically labelled as such, have either a solid or gel electrolyte, and are packaged in pouches while the rest of the Lithium-Ion cells are labelled LiIon or Lithium Ion, can be packaged in pouches but can also be packaged in cylindrical beakers, these have a liquid electrolyte with the negative electrode being the beaker and the plus being the center typically brought out at a concentric tip.
Manufacturers sometimes use deceptive labeling and given that the form factors are somewhat interchangeable it really is a confusing mess. Unfortunately both chemistries have 4.20V as their 'charged' voltage and 3.0V as their discharged voltages because of the underlying chemical similarities so looking at the voltages won't give you a good idea either.
In the end, the electrode is what matters, but getting to that requires destruction of the cell. One non-destructive way of figuring out if a cell has a liquid electrolyte is to see if you can shift the center of gravity by tilting the cell slowly. If you can then it is most likely a Lithium Ion battery, if you can't then it is a most likely a Lithium Polymer one.
Nothing is perfectly safe, that is how lithium batteries fail. You should know so you can properly deal with problems.
There is an annoying trend among people that expect everything to be perfectly safe. It seems to be a symptom of an overly sheltered existence.